I'm not sure I fully understand (English is not my first language).
Why are you disappointed? You don't have to use it if it's not a feature you're interested in. AI is just a tool. If you prefer to let your creativity flow and do everything by hand, that's perfectly fine.
Useless? I couldn't disagree more. This tool is incredibly powerful for generating ideas, helping when you're stuck with inspiration, assisting with debugging, and speeding up the creation of websites or boilerplates when you need to or when the task isn't worth your time.
One last thing: Webstudio is a company, and they need to make money to develop their product. There are already many excellent website editors, some of which are more advanced, but in my opinion, they won't survive if they don't engage in the AI race. AI is everywhere now, in code editors, music software, design software, and more. If you've heard about certain companies today, it's often due to breakthroughs in AI within their fields.
AI helps me improve this text to ensure my English is correct, so I'm a little bit better every day, and it's probably better for people who read me. 😉
@thisisTeo your response reads purely emotional. Can you name exact reasons for your response?
I also believe there are features that are much more needed than ai, but I can understand why you decided to go this route
I've created everything from music to art to websites to video games
I'm sure you have used AI in your process in some form without realising it, AI was already present in many tools long before gen AI explosion.
Do you think all html elements support and tailwind paste would be more useful?
My own preferred features are: grid ui, version history and component editor)
IMHO prioritising AI in WS is a right call. AI is eating the world of dev and it cannot be ignored at this point. The goal is not AI itself, the goal is to implement features that will help user ship fast with WS standards, if AI could help achieve this why not!
I think getting the basics right should be the prio and after that going for more
If we look at the roadmap, many tickets are always in parallel progress, I'm sure the team will continue to make basics strong while bringing "non-basics" innovations.
Every company needs a mix of both
why do you think we go this route? you might have guessed something that's not accurate
or at least backups, which will solve the problem for most people
Webstudio is a craft tool, quality tool. Imho ai will change this a bit at least in minds of some users. Maybe I have this biase of unquality ai. I just love humanity in tools, they seem more like they care about users, idk.
This is what you are not getting: AI is not replacing humans where they were needed, it makes them faster.
It may replace them only in 2 cases:
- If you are underperforming, mediocre designer with no taste - AI will do a better job.
- The job didn't need human touch in the first place.
A lot of people will feel attacked, usually this is imposter syndrome talking.
It depends. We don't know what the future holds. It's definitely happening though, across the board, not only for design, but dev and nearly every other part of the industry.
Ah frick I have a lot to respond to. Didn't get any notifications for this chat whoopsie
Why are you disappointed? You don't have to use it if it's not a feature you're interested in. AI is just a tool. If you prefer to let your creativity flow and do everything by hand, that's perfectly fine.
Because the rabbit hole of issues around AI with ethically sourced data, the proliferation of legitimately low effort slop, and the fact that everyone acts like these aren't inherent issues with AI as a whole. These issues are constantly swept under the rug because it's so much easier to just say "nah doesn't matter gonna use AI". Not to mention the fact that every AI is crammed somewhere like here it just validates it as a replacement for actual effort. The Industrial Light & Magic crap is kinda just another step on the ladder. Again, this won't be listened to.
Useless? I couldn't disagree more. This tool is incredibly powerful for generating ideas, helping when you're stuck with inspiration, assisting with debugging, and speeding up the creation of websites or boilerplates when you need to or when the task isn't worth your time.
Gonna gloss over this because I consider it laziness through and through. This is where the "is it just a tool?" debate comes in, but since when does telling something to literally do every single part of it for you count as a tool?
One last thing: Webstudio is a company, and they need to make money to develop their product. [...]
Yeah, that's kinda the issue, thanks.
AI helps me improve this text to ensure my English is correct, so I'm a little bit better every day, and it's probably better for people who read me. 😉
This is one of my favorite uses for AI. There's an entire website that's just trasncripting YouTube videos with AI and giving definitions and I think it's wonderful. It's in my bookmarks for when I need to show people how AI can be used well. Generative AI is not that. Everyone will pull these excuses out for "why we should love genAI"... this isn't genAI.
@thisisTeo your response reads purely emotional. Can you name exact reasons for your response?
I guess see above, but I can absolutely go on. I can answer to most of what you might respond with. As for emotional? Yeah, absolutely. I really hate when people dumb things down for being "emotional". Hate to break it to folks but emotions
do exist and are important. I doubt I have to explain why. So yes, I'm emotionally charged on this issue. As I should be.
I'm sure you have used AI in your process in some form without realising it, AI was already present in many tools long before gen AI explosion.
Again, I'm referring to genAI here.
IMHO prioritising AI in WS is a right call. AI is eating the world of dev and it cannot be ignored at this point. The goal is not AI itself, the goal is to implement features that will help user ship fast with WS standards, if AI could help achieve this why not!
I'm all for using AI to
speed up something monotonous. Like, "AI, reorganize these divs using this new structure described below" is useful and great. "AI, make my fucking website" is pretty stupid. Tools are amazing. "Do it for me!" will (and has) come back to bite us.
This is what you are not getting: AI is not replacing humans where they were needed, it makes them faster.
I'm sorry but
blatantly not true. I will show you my projects I've done to illustrate to you that I'm not a damn hobbyist on the things I listed above. This crap is absolutely robbing creatives in many areas of their livelihoods
actively and you don't have to look far for that.
Nobody tells you not to have emotions, but if you want to engage with others, you gotta calm down your language and be reasonable, if I engage my emotions, I will hurt your feelings.
Don't threaten me please, I can simply be told "watch your language". If you need me to edit out my naughty words above I can do that as well.
>This crap is absolutely robbing creatives in many areas of their livelihoods actively and you don't have to look far for that.
Let's say this is true for the sake of an experiment. What do you want to do? Fight us? Fight AI?
I want to inform you and as many as I can that generative AI is pretty harmful even in your "harmless" implementation. The simplest thing you can do is just
not make the automatic website maker 3000. You would A) be actually helping with this battle against AI us creatives are entrenched in and B) be able to put those resources somewhere else-- all those hours can go into making some other features stronger.
I've seen a lot of software devs pull against AI and wait until they make something that can actually provide value in ways that just aren't today. Take Image-Line, creators of FL Studio; they added an AI tool to pull stems from songs. For the hobbyist space this is utterly amazing. I don't have the contacts to ask Deadmou5 for the stems to Raise Your Weapon (or pick a creator/song). There's no realistic way to extract them either. (As far as if there are ramifications for using said stems, that's outside of my scope of knowledge and IMO the topic at large) Giving musicians the chance to create something themselves with tools that literally could not otherwise? Outstanding use of AI.
Software can have AI features. You just shouldn't go the Affine route and shove it in and pretend it's useful because it visually shows value, by way of simply creating a legible block of text.
This video, while long, explains a lot of it very well. Keep in mind this is about more than just the search results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-opBifFfsMYAnd moreover, keep in mind this is not an issue you don't have agency
or power over. You feed the beast it gets stronger.
You are 2 steps behind IMHO.
- There won't be a battle, things AI can do will be used. That's a fact.
- Yes we will also use it to make other features better, it's not either or
- I have been skeptical as an engineer all this time. It's only a time until the first aha moment.
- If you think we shove it in and pretend it's useful that's just insulting my intelligence.
In the evolution, humans are the strongest predators because they are smarter and they use tools. See AI as a next step in our evolution. You either learn to use the tool or get eaten by those who will.
I'm getting pretty strong vibes here that nothing I say will stop any of what you're gonna do, really.
Or rather, will even put a inkling of reconsideration through any of this.
Absolutely nothing. Honestly. I am always here to listen though.
Genuine question: Why would I continue preaching to the wall that just says "I don't care"?
I care and I learn from what you say. It doesn't mean I do what you tell us to do.
Well, I wouldn't say that's "absolutely nothing" then.
That was in regards to if you can change the fact that we are building it, we will build it.
Fair enough, though I did rescind on that specific wording. For the same reasons as why* you're still building it, too.
At the very least then I request it just not being in every part of the builder without the ability to disable it. If you're gonna ship it, at least make me click into using it, and ideally removing it altogether-- especially in self-hosted instances of the builder.
Self hosting can't have it for technical reasons
First version is a separate product entirely
Designer here (the one that "gets replaced by genAI").
I personally look forward to building out structures with Webstudio AI. Think of Relume or Devos Library, but custom made for the project. I personally want to train the AI on a design system and coherent building language that everyone shares with each other.
That's honestly the most uncreative part of my job and I would love to see these things pushed.
It allows me to go more in-depth into positioning strategy, offer creation and the actual content.
I want to get replaced at tasks I don't want to do anyways. I want to work on the creative tasks I actually enjoy doing.
Now, @thisisTeo I am curious to hear your opinion. What scares you the most about the implementation of AI into well another tool… this time Webstudio?
Another Designer here, and also another fan of AI. I've been designing websites since the 90s, and the Design process that used to take us 6-9 months we can now do in 2-3 weeks — with the same level of care and quality, at a fraction of the cost for the client. This means that I can now service SMEs, which I love, rather than focusing on large organisations. AI has not replaced our creative process, or made our design knowledge and skills redundant: it actually helped streamline a whole lot of time wasting tasks that are part of the design process — such as research, brainstorming, code revision and more. We design faster, better, and can deliver a very high-level service at a price point that would have been impossible for small businesses to get in the past. There is no going back.
I'm not going to engage any further in this for a number of reasons.
1) I already explained the damage and nobody cares. I won't rehash arguments nobody is listening to. (Especially under the guise of "I'm listening"). Like both of these comments are just not taking into consideration things I've already said.
2) This is a programmers group not a creators group. I'm grateful that I split the middle pretty well. And I have personal doubts against the "artists who love AI" trope. They're often not really artists despite the years of service they'll tout.
3) I already got the answer I asked for, straight from the developer. Any other discussion here does not exist to help with this app at all. Nobody is curious to hear my opinion, you're looking for arguments to debunk.
4) I'm in a bad mood because I'm probably not even gonna be alive by the end of this year, so I'm very happy I get to go out knowing that people will choose the path of least resistance, as is nature, even when we shouldn't.
I ask the respect to be left alone on this matter now. Do not tag me any further if you can help it, thank you.
@thisisTeo people are just disagreeing with you, listening doesn't mean agreeing
you're looking for arguments to debunk.
You can call it debunk, or you can listen to counter arguments. In any case this is how a controversial discussion works. Did you hope for people to yep?
I think there are people who agree with you, they just haven't found this discussion yet.
4) I'm in a bad mood because I'm probably not even gonna be alive by the end of this year, so I'm very happy I get to go out knowing that people will choose the path of least resistance, as is nature, even when we shouldn't.
Holy shit dude. I don't know what to say. To say that I get you would be a lie, its a tough spot. I wish you to find some path to some happiness.
I read this and was confused for a second-- I do want to be fully transparent here as I realize what I said can be misconstrued pretty badly. Fair warning this is a bit morbid.
But this isn't from a doctor (well, not yet) but specifically from suicide. I have lost my home, had a rather bad traumatic event happen in 2022, have already existing mental health issues, and am actively watching my country go down a dark path. The doctors visits and therapy aren't helping and I don't really want to be around anymore in the first place. So not only do I not think I'll be here but I'm fighting less to be here every day
I added that not for any garnering of sympathy but just for context of why I'm done with the discussion. I appreciate the concern but I would never want people to think I'm 'woe-is-me'ing'.
I appreciate a lot of the discussion here for the record, but again, things are bad and getting worse so I should probably disengage. Someone who can't bring anything fruitful to a conversation should not be adding to it, myself included. Hopefully I can return to the AI discussion in the future with a more level head and a bit more trust in the communities intentions. (The fire emojis on the pro-AI statements aren't exactly making me feel valued in the discussion after all)
